Host
Orkhan Freeman
Guests
- Amy Battrick, Management Accountant, EG Group
- Bronwyn Fitzgerald, Finance Team Manager, Gerald Edelman
Transcript
Orkhan Freeman: Hello and welcome to ICAW Student Insights. My name is Orkhan Freeman and today we're discussing what it's like to work in industry. If you're training in practice, you might be wondering what life is like over in industry. And after qualifying as an ACA, it can be a difficult decision to whether to stay in practice or to try out something new. We're going to make that decision a little bit easier by sharing some stories of working in industry. I'm joined by Amy Battrick, Management Accountant at EG Group, and Bronwyn Fitzgerald, Finance Team Manager at Gerald Edelman. Welcome both, and thanks for coming today. Thank you for having us.
Bronwyn Fitzgerald: Thank you so much for having us.
OF: So I guess, would you like to tell us a bit about yourselves and your current role?
BF: Yeah, so my name's Bronwyn, as you've just said. I grew up in South Africa, and I always really wanted to be a chartered accountant. I did start my journey of becoming a chartered accountant when I was living in South Africa, But it's a little bit more difficult to become a chartered accountant over there than it is over here. There's just a lot more option over here than there is back home in South Africa. And when I moved to the UK in 2018, I heard about the AAT-ACA Fast Track program, and I immediately got involved in that because even though I went to university, I didn't finish my degree. When I heard about the AAT-ACA Fast Track, that's the route that I really wanted to take. So I sort of got involved with AAT when I was working at my previous company. And then I found this current role where I could continue my studies and pursue my ACA as well.
OF: Thank you very much for that. Amy, what about yourself?
Amy Battrick: So my name is Amy. I am a newly qualified ICAEW chartered accountant. I finished the ACA qualification, and my last exam was in November and I officially got everything signed off and everything sorted in February. So I went straight from A Levels straight into a working job where they did study support. I went from A Levels into AAT along with this job and then from AAT added straight into ACA.
OF: Could you please tell me a bit about your roles and the roles that you've trained in and just give me a bit more context about those?
BF: Well, I started out as a senior finance assistant in my current role. And I was busy completing my AAT when I started the role. And then when I finished my AAT, then I wanted to start my ACA as well. So I began that about two years ago now. And in my current role, I do the management accounts for the company. I do the VAT returns. I chase people's time sheets and I assist with the weekly payment run. So, and that's supplier payments as well as staff expenses. And then any sort of ad hoc reporting that the partners or managers need, that's something that I help with.
OF: And what about yourself, Amy?
AB: So I do quite a few different things in my role. One of the main things is at month end, I do a lot of posting of journals. And so it's things like your prepayments and your accruals. And as well as that, I also do a lot of like balance sheet recs or making sure that, you know, we've not got any old-aged items on there or if we do finding out whether they still need to be there. And I also do the OPEX review. So this is looking at any operational expenditure and analyzing it, finding out the differences between budget and flash, etc. I've also then got to explain them to the external stakeholders and higher management, make sure that there's reasons transfer if there is any big differences. No one wants that. Yeah. So yeah, looking into like any of the big differences and variances. I also do a cash to revenue reconciliation, which is quite complicated in my current role, mainly because there's a lot of like reimbursements and stuff to different customers, suppliers, et cetera, a lot of contras. So that's quite fantastic. And then I also do like relationship building with the accounts receivable team and the accounts payable team. So I have monthly meetings with them one-to-one with different people and looking into the ledgers, making sure they're reconciled, any old balances again and just trying to overall make sure that they're clean.
OF: So I guess what drove you both into those roles? What made you go into there and start training?
BF: So when I first started my role, my initial plan was actually to finish my AAT and then possibly move to a team that was more client-facing, so I guess in practice. But when I reached out to the ICAEW and I realized that I didn't actually have to move teams, then I stayed in my current role. And because I was really enjoying the fact that I was in the internal finance team, I was building relationships with everyone across the firm rather than just, you know, being client facing and sort of churning out management accounts every month or things like that for clients. And I could really see the value that I was adding to the internal finance team. So that was one of the things that really drove me to continue in my role was just the fact that I could build more relationships with people inside the firm.
AB: I think for me, one of the big factors was that it was a huge company and it had quite a clear hierarchy, so there was a ladder to climb. So I knew that when I qualified, I really wanted a job where I could stay there for a while and I could build up my skills and the knowledge and my experience and just keep working up and keep climbing up the ladder, basically. to yeah, just basically for career progression and but also so my previous role was in manufacturing and this role was in retail and I wanted to try something a little bit different to manufacturing just to get different experience just so that I've got you know more to put on my CV. It's slightly different to manufacturing as in that you don't have you know the raw materials instead it's buying and selling but and still I still find it very interesting and so that was another factor I'd say that intrigued me into the role was something different.
OF: Yeah. So I guess with your initial training contract when you'd started that within manufacturing. What got you into that?
AB: I think I was always intrigued by like businesses. When I was younger I was always very nosy and say, oh how have they done that or why are they doing this or what's going on in the wider world. And I liked learning about different companies, especially like, why have they gone bust, why have they gone into liquidation, what's going on? And so I always found that quite intriguing. So I think that's why I wanted to go within like manufacturing, because I liked the idea that I would be inside an internal finance function, I'd be getting into the detail of the accounts, I'd know what were going on. I'd get, you know, building experience into understanding the accounts and how to actually read it, see what's going on. And that's like transferable then into pretty much any company. But also specifically manufacturing, I just really liked the idea of seeing a company from the very start to the finish. So seeing the products get bought in, get produced, and then sold to the end customer. The site where I was based actually had the whole manufacturing company there. So it had all the machines, all the shop floor workers working on making these air filters. So it was really interesting because I could actually walk into the shop floor and see what was going on, I could see the deliveries coming in, I could see the product being made, the shipments going out. So it was just really good that I got the holistic view of the company.
OF: You could see everything go from start to finish, how your work impacts.
AB: It was just really interesting to do that.
OF: Would you mind just telling us what you think of industry and what industry is compared to practice, because I appreciate within our world there's an understanding of it, but for those listening, what would you define as industry, I guess?
BF: In industry, you're more sort of in an internal finance role, whereas when you're in practice, you're more sort of working with clients and you're going to see clients more than, and you're a lot more client facing than you are in industry. And in industry, you sort of have a sort of a high-level overview of everything that goes on in finance rather than just like pushing out the management accounts.
AB: We can get more into the detail.
BF: Exactly, exactly.
OF: What led you to starting within industry? Because it happens a lot more now, whereas I think when I was starting, I think practice, and that was your traditional route. You go practice, you get your chartership, and then you move into industry. What led you to going into industry, I guess, in the first place, Amy?
AB: So for me, I think it was... When you're looking at jobs as a young person, it's travel, pay, study support, all that sort of stuff. From where I grew up, it's in a small town called Blackburn, so there wasn't massive city centres where I could go and there was endless jobs. So for me, it was what's available near me. I didn't really want to move too far. I know there are the big order. You can go to Manchester, which is about 45 minutes from where I live. So there was an option to do that, but I knew I didn't want to move away from home or travel. So for me, one of the things was that it was what was available at the time, but also I really enjoyed the manufacturing. So I kind of liked knowing how a company literally bought the goods, made the goods and then sold it. And I thought that process was really intriguing and I liked finding out about how much they're buying it for and the labour costs that are going into it and the raw materials. So I liked the actual production side of it. And the place I worked, the actual manufacturing site was on the side of the offices. So I could walk through the factory, I could see all the big air filters being made. And yeah, it was just really interesting and really cool.
BF: I think a lot of the accounting material is also related to manufacturing. Yeah, definitely. And it helps when you can relate it so much to your job.
OF: I mean, you've both made this point. I think this sort of echoes one of the big things about industry is you see that holistic view of the business and how you're providing impacts the business as a whole. and it's not a case of you're giving it, moving on to something else and forgetting about it. I guess for me, that was sort of the biggest driving point of industry. For yourself, Bronwyn, you've got a pretty cool route to it because you're within practice, but kind of working within, sort of, the finance function internally. So I guess what led you to that?
BF: So that role definitely found me rather than me find the role. So when I first started working in the UK, I was working for a global mobility company, also in the internal finance team. And I had started my AAT already, but they didn't really offer study support, you know, full study support. And when this new job came about at Gerald Edelman, they found me. So I obviously interviewed for the role and I told them exactly what I was looking for in terms of what I needed for study support, what my route was that I wanted to take, and they fully supported me. So yeah, so I started off as a senior finance assistant and now I'm finance team manager. And yeah, I definitely, thank you. I definitely do enjoy the whole, the holistic approach to finance and almost you're almost educating internal stakeholders on the entire finance function rather than just telling clients what they need to do for their business. So I do enjoy that aspect of it.
OF: That's quite interesting as well, because I guess potentially within our roles where educating people who are not used to finance and maybe don't understand the spreadsheets and things like that, within your role, you're dealing with people who are expected to have that understanding from right and saying. So how do you find teaching what you're teaching to those that effectively have that understanding?
BF: Yeah, so it can be quite interesting sometimes because obviously you've got majority of the firm that are qualified chartered accountants, but then you still have other functions within the firm, like, for instance, marketing, for example, they're not exactly chartered accountants. And you still need to tell them that they can't spend all the money in the company.
OF: On fancy rooms like this, right?
BF: Yeah, on fancy rooms like this. But it is enjoyable because you get to work with different people. And I think even if people are qualified or on their way to being qualified, it's still important for them to understand how the business needs to run. Things like timesheets, I mean, they come up all the time. People hate them. But you still need to get people to understand the importance of them. So I think it's also about bringing your personality into it as well, because no one wants to be chased for their timesheets, for example. But just making yourself relatable and telling them why it's important or making light of it, then it does help.
OF: And I think that word timesheet is one of the main reasons why I didn't go into practice. Don't miss them at all. Amy, so we were touching on it, but in terms of you educating those that are not, that don't have that experience potentially within finance, how do you find that and how did you find that develop across the last three, four years for you?
AB: Yeah, I think there's definitely like a barrier between, you know, you can't really use technical accounting terms. So it is always trying to sort of simplify just simple things like prepayments and accruals, actuals versus budget, and stuff like trying to explain the variances sometimes can be quite complicated. Just to try, like I suppose, in a way, like, simplify it and make it like layman terms so that everyone can understand. But I think over time you find your own little ways of saying things and doing things and you kind of see what would work for what, for who and stuff. So I'll see like what would work for certain people.
OF: Yeah, that makes sense. What do you currently enjoy about your current roles then? So there's obviously that education piece and there's the there's the piece around being in a company and seeing that holistic view across everything. What keeps you where you are and what drives you to continue to stay there?
BF: I definitely think the relationships that you build with people. For me, because I'm part of the internal finance team, and so many people, so many people, if I can say, need me, it is nice to be able to work with so many different people in so many different departments. Like, we're not one of the biggest accounting firms, but we're a medium-sized accountancy firm, I think. So whenever we get a new starter, I always do a finance induction with them so that they can see what it is that we actually do from a finance perspective.
OF: Give them that wide picture, rather than just the isolated client view.
BF: From the beginning. So not only do we show them how to do things from a finance point of view internally, but it also gives them someone else to talk to and sort of another point of contact in the firm, that helps. And just building that relationship from day one, I think is quite important to solidify a career really within your company.
AB: Yeah, I like that. Like, we have an invoicing team and so I think you can tell that they don't necessarily understand that what gels they're putting in and what cost centers they're called into. I don't think they actually see that that has a massive impact then on the end of the management accounts and things. So yeah, like educating people on the fact that, you know, it has to go to this general ledger, don't put it somewhere else. And that like, I think sometimes they won't understand if you're freshly new or no one's ever explained it to them before. So it does just take a bit of time to actually show them the whole process and, like you said, then that was a good idea of introducing new people into the finance team and giving them an idea. Yeah.
OF: So without putting any words into your mouths, I guess, would you say communication, that relationship building, would you say that's one of the key skills within industry?
BF: Yeah, definitely.
AB: One of my roles at the moment is actually trying to build relationships between us and the accounts receivable and the accounts payable. So we have monthly meetings with them. It's also about trying to get the ledgers tidy and reconcile things and get old balances cleared and stuff. I feel like if you don't have that nice, friendly relationship, sometimes it's hard to get stuff done. They're not as responsive, whereas if you actually not take a bit of time to build up a nice relationship with people, you know, if you are friends with someone, they're going to be a lot more helpful, they're going to be a lot more understanding of what you want. I think it's very important in such a big company to have really good relationships with everyone, because you're always going to need everyone at some point or someone's going to need you.
BF: Something that I always remind our team about is we're all on the same team, so we're all trying to get to the same destination. So as long as we're all on the same page, we can get there.
OF: That's a really good point, actually. Within the industry, you have that common goal, and you're working as a team towards that. And it's, I mean, you've worked on the comm side of it, but within your studies, I guess you don't learn that aspect of it. You're learning that technical side. So how do you develop that soft skill, I guess, and how did you develop it and how are you continuing to develop it going forward?
BF: You know, putting yourself in situations that's sort of outside of your job description. That's something that I actually learned from my current manager. And, you know, he's always been very big on building your soft skills up. So if you're just sort of doing your day-to-day job, you're not necessarily pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone. But, you know, finding things that can be improved and, yeah, just sort of working outside your job description is definitely something that's helped me.
AB: I'd say as well that the ICAEW within the ACA qualification where you've got to do the professional development matters, one of them is solely based on communication. And there's a lot of them where one of them was communicating with a team and leadership and things where if you weren't doing that course, then you wouldn't necessarily think, oh, I need to do this and I need to do that. So I think that was really good because as you're working through it, you can say to your manager, oh, I need to evidence this skill, can I put in this meeting? Or can I do this? So I think that was really, really helpful alongside while you’re studying and progression towards that skill, because it literally gave you like, you know, step by step, little increments each time. So without that I might not have developed such good relationships with people as well because I wouldn't have maybe thrown myself into this scenario.
OF: Getting stuck in and speaking to people. It's really interesting.
BF: When I first had a look at my training file, I honestly thought I was going to be at a disadvantage because I was in industry and not in practice. But I sat down with my training principal and he explained stuff to me, like step by step in what I needed to do. And I was like, okay, this could actually work. And he was the one who actually said to me that you'll probably find yourself being miles ahead of people who are in practice rather than in industry like you are. So yeah, it's about getting those.
OF: That's a really interesting point actually. You're getting stuck into it and you're seeing a wider picture rather than just the isolated view sometimes. You've both kind of touched on it a little bit, but I guess one thing that what practice has and what industry may not, and appreciate it, varies company versus company, but one, you may not have the guidance that you may have in practice because you've got so many people that have gone through the same journey within practice, and two, the progression side of it and everything else that comes with industry is not as visible. So going into the industry, you're making that jump into that, knowing that's going to be the case. I guess maybe let's start with, in terms of the guidance that you've had, how did you feel the guidance that you've had has helped shape you to what you are now? And you've kind of started touching on that, Bronwyn, perhaps going into that a little bit.
BF: Yeah, so I think the biggest thing is that you think that, you know, when you start, you think you have to be an associate, move into senior associate, and then eventually like assistant manager and manager. But when you're, that's sort of the practice side of things, but when you're in industry, you sort of open yourself up to the whole finance function, and it gives you a better understanding of everything. And when, I mean, when I first started this job, I was a senior finance assistant, and now I find myself as a manager. Even though it has been, it probably has taken a bit longer for me to get to where I am, you know the skills that I've developed have really sort of solidified me in my career, and even though, I mean, no one else in the company may have taken the same path as me, there's always people around you that you can relate to and can relate to where you are. So yeah, there's always that guidance.
OF: What about yourself, Amy? How did you find going into going into it fresh, essentially, without knowing , I guess nothing, and then having the guidance from what you had to get you to where you are now? And then we'll kind of touch on the next bit, but I guess you've now qualified. I guess the dreaded question, what drives your career now? What are your goals, if you don't mind me asking?
AB: I think I just want to keep climbing as high as I can. I would, you know, everyone kind of wants to be a CFO one day. That would be my goal. But yeah, I think for now it's just getting as much experience as I can, building my CV, and just working up the ladder. So I’m just trying to get, you know, the higher experience jobs and keep going. But yeah, I would like to be mainly the person who's making the decisions. So I want to be sat in the boardroom, involved with the decisions. I don't just want to be making the numbers and producing the statements. I want to actually be, you know, oh, what should we do next? Should we invest in this? I would like to get definitely into like the decision-making, which yeah, you need to be as high up as you can to do that.
OF: So Bronwyn, I guess what's driving you and what are your career goals after ACA?
BF: So I haven't yet qualified. So definitely first goal is to qualify. So I've got three more Professional Level exams to go, and obviously the three Advanced. Then I actually have a really keen interest in business development and seeing how building those relationships can really build a company up. So I hope to, either in my current role or whether it is with a different company, move into business development and building relationships with outside stakeholders, clients, suppliers, and yeah, just building those relationships and seeing how that can add value to the company.
OF: So kind of going in and effectively building and working on those soft skills that will eventually, you know, pay off and build those relationships.
BF: Yeah, because I think especially in the world that we're living in now where AI is just taking over everything, I think the human element of business is going to become so, so important. And at the end of the day, people buy from people, right? So as long as you're building those relationships with people, building up that trust, I think that's definitely what's going to set companies apart in the future.
OF: In terms of building that and building that towards career goal, what are you doing at the moment? What steps are you taking to building towards that?
BF: So I definitely go out of my way to build relationships with people within our current firm and, sorry, within the current company that I'm working for. And I also, I think it's also important, especially in a city like London, where there's so many people, you walk past people every day. And I do always try and sort of step outside my comfort zone and always try to say something nice to someone or even if it's just like, if I think someone looks really nice or if they've got a pretty dress on or something, I always try, you know, say that to them because I think our lives are so busy and, when something like, I mean, I know I like it when someone says something nice to me, so I know that it'll mean something to someone else. So I think just bringing that human element to everything that you do, I think, is so important.
OF: Do you find, Amy, with your role in terms of BD, so we had quite a bit of that in practice, but I feel like within the industry, for myself, there's been little because it's more BD within the company itself as opposed to looking why they're speaking to clients in sales and marketing and that kind of stuff. But do you find you're currently having to, well, you touched on it with building relationships with other teams, is that something that's been encouraged or is that something that you're currently going out and doing yourself?
AB: Yeah, I'd definitely say it's encouraged and stuff. I feel like the company as a whole is trying to get more like a togetherness about it and have the teams working together. Yes, I definitely say that the business development side of it is pushed within people, and they are trying to get implementing new systems and stuff and get everyone onboard with it. So I think that's quite a nice thing to see and it's quite a good experience to get involved with. And so, yeah, I think that side of it definitely.
OF: And finally, and thank you for being with us today, but finally, just to put you both on the spot, what advice would you give to someone if someone's looking to either train in industry or move into industry from practice?
BF: I would say definitely take some time to think what exactly it is you want from your career and what industry you really want to go into. So if there's an industry that really does interest you, then see how you can bring your skills to that industry. And yeah, just make sure that you're building relationships with as many people as possible. We are doing quite a lot of interviewing in our company at the moment, and a lot of the times what I say to people is that obviously in every single company you work for, there is always the opportunity to move around, to move to different departments, but it's all on you. It's on you to make those relationships work with other people. So yeah.
AB: I would say not to be worried about change, mainly because if you've got to the point where you're qualified and you've done your ACA, then you are going to have so much experience and knowledge and transferable skills that you can just move to any sort of sector that you want. So don't be worried that, you know, practice is completely different to industry because even though you've never done industry, you're going to have so much transferable skills that you can use and you can really utilize what you've built throughout your whole training contract. So yeah, I would definitely say like, your skills are transferable, so don't put yourself down thinking, oh, I've never done this before. I can't do this. Because you definitely will be able to do it if you put your mind to it.
OF: Yeah. Taking more risks and taking, you know... Thanks for that advice. It's always important to take your time before making a career move, especially when it comes to leaving practice for industry or choosing where you're training. Before we finish up, I want to say thank you both for coming in today. Thanks for your time, Amy and Bronwyn.
AB: Thank you for having us. It's been lovely.
OF: Make sure you visit ICAEW Student Insights for ongoing support during your studies. On the Student Insights Hub, you'll find resources for completing the ACA qualification and ICAEW CFAB, as well as inspiring stories of students and recently qualified members. It's all available at icaew.com/studentinsights. If you found this podcast useful, then please make sure you subscribe so you never miss an episode, and let us know what you think by writing a review on